46 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1997, Canada

Journals of the Senate

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Issue 34

Wednesday, December 17, 1997
1:30 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

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The Members convened were: The Honourable Senators Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Bacon, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cogger, Cohen, Comeau, Cools, Corbin, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Forest, Forrestall, Gauthier, Gigantès, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Haidasz, Hays, Hébert, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Petten, Pitfield, Poulin, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stanbury, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan,

PRAYERS

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Government Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stanbury:

That, when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, December 18, 1997, at 9:00 a.m.;

That the Senate proceed immediately to sit in Committee of the Whole to hear the following witnesses respecting the Resolution to amend Term 17 of the Constitution respecting the school system in the Province of Newfoundland:

- from 9:05 a.m. to 9:45 a.m., The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops;

- from 9:45 a.m. to 10:30 a.m., Education First; and

- at 10:30 a.m., the Honourable Stéphane Dion, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs; and

That at the conclusion of the proceedings of the Committee of the Whole, the Senate will resume the sitting and proceed to the daily order of business.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Third reading of Bill C-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Interpretation Act (powers to arrest and enter dwellings).

The Honourable Senator Lewis moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Petten, that the Bill be read the third time.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.

The Bill was then read the third time and passed, on division.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, without amendment. Orders No. 3 and 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Motions

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Petten:

WHEREAS section 43 of the Constitution Act, 1982 provides that an amendment to the Constitution of Canada may be made by proclamation issued by the Governor General under the Great Seal of Canada where so authorized by resolutions of the Senate and House of Commons and of the legislative assembly of each province to which the amendment applies;

NOW THEREFORE the Senate resolves that an amendment to the Constitution of Canada be authorized to be made by proclamation issued by His Excellency the Governor General under the Great Seal of Canada in accordance with the schedule hereto.

SCHEDULE

AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION OF CANADA

1. Term 17 of the Terms of Union of Newfoundland with Canada set out in the Schedule to the Newfoundland Act is repealed and the following substituted therefor:

"17.(1) In lieu of section ninety-three of the Constitution Act, 1867, this Term shall apply in respect of the Province of Newfoundland.

(2) In and for the Province of Newfoundland, the Legislature shall have exclusive authority to make laws in relation to education, but shall provide for courses in religion that are not specific to a religious denomination.

(3) Religious observances shall be permitted in a school where requested by parents."

Citation

2. This Amendment may be cited as the Constitution Amendment, year of proclamation (Newfoundland Act).

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator DeWare, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE

At 2:15 p.m., pursuant to the Order adopted on December 16, 1997, the Senate was adjourned during pleasure and put into a Committee of the Whole on the Bill C-2, An Act to establish the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and to amend the Canada Pension Plan and the Old Age Security Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, the Honourable Senator Corbin in the Chair.

-In the Committee-

Pursuant to Rule 21, the Honourable Paul Martin, P.C., M.P., Minister of Finance, was escorted to a seat in the Senate Chamber. The title of the Bill was read and postponed.

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Clause 1, the short title of the Bill, was read and postponed.

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Debate. Ordered, That a copy of the memorandum to the Minister of Finance, dated October 22, 1997, on the subject of costs of replacing the Canada Pension Plan (CPP) with a system of mandatory Registered Retirement Savings Plans (RRSPs), be tabled.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-405S. With leave, Mr. Walter Robinson, Federal Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation, was escorted to a seat in the Senate Chamber.

Debate. With leave, Mr. Armand Brun, Acting Chairperson, and Mr. Steve Kerstetter, Director, National Council of Welfare, were escorted to seats in the Senate Chamber.

Debate.

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Clauses 2 to 110 of the Bill were read.

The question of concurrence being put on Clauses 2 to 110 of the Bill, it was adopted on division.

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The Schedule to the Bill was read.

The question of concurrence being put on the Schedule to the Bill, it was adopted on division.

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Clause 1, the short title of the Bill, was again read.

The question of concurrence being put on Clause 1, the short title of the Bill, it was adopted on division.

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The title of the Bill was again read.

The question of concurrence being put on the title of the Bill, it was adopted on division.

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The sitting of the Senate resumed. The Chairman of the Committee stated that the Committee had examined the Bill and had directed him to report the same to the Senate, without amendment.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kirby, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Motions

With leave of the Senate, Order No. 2 was withdrawn.

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With leave, The Senate reverted to Presentation of Reports From Standing or Special Committees. The Honourable Senator Stewart, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, presented its Fourth Report (budget-study on the growing importance of the Asia-Pacific region for Canada).

Ordered, That the Report be printed as an Appendix to the Journals of the Senate of this day and form part of the permanent records of this House.

(See Appendix "A")

The Honourable Senator Stewart moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lewis, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Stewart, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, presented its Fifth Report (budget-study on the consequences for Canada of the emerging European Monetary Union).

Ordered, That the Report be printed as an Appendix to the Journals of the Senate of this day and form part of the permanent records of this House.

(See Appendix "B")

The Honourable Senator Stewart moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Petten, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Reports of Committees

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Haidasz, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Stewart, for the second reading of Bill S-8, An Act to amend the Tobacco Act (content regulation).

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Petten, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Order No. 3 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Reports of Committees

Resuming debate on the consideration of the Final Report of the Special Committee of the Senate on Post-Secondary Education, tabled in the Senate on December 16, 1997.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Forest moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stanbury, that further debate on the consideration of the Report be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Order No. 2 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Other

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should consider the request of the Famous Five Foundation to honour the memory of Emily Murphy, Nellie McClung, Irene Parlby, Louise McKinney and Henrietta Muir Edwards, known as the Famous Five, by allowing a statue commemorating them to be placed on Parliament Hill.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Orders No. 8 (inquiry), 3 and 1 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

QUESTIONS OF PRIVILEGE

Pursuant to Rule 43(8), the Senate proceeded to the consideration of the question of privilege of the Honourable Senator Tkachuk regarding the publication of the T4127(E), the Payroll Deductions Formulas for Computer Programs, effective January 1, 1998, by the Government of Canada.

Debate. Pursuant to Rule 43(8), the Senate proceeded to the consideration of the question of privilege of the Honourable Senator Kinsella regarding the publication of the T4127(E), the Payroll Deductions Formulas for Computer Programs, effective January 1, 1998, by the Government of Canada.

Debate. The Speaker reserved his decision on the questions of privilege.

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Tkachuk tabled the following:

Revenue Canada webpage respecting publications, guides and forms. (English text)-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-406S.

Copy of the response to a question raised in the Senate on November 19, 1997 by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk regarding the changes to the Canada Pension Plan - circulation of income tax returns prior to passage of Bill C-2, An Act to establish the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and to amend the Canada Pension Plan and the Old Age Security Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts. -Sessional Paper No. 1/36-407S.

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senators Tkachuk and Kinsella tabled the following:

Document entitled: "T4127(E), Payroll Deductions Formulas for Computer Programs", 67th Edition, Effective January 1, 1998. (English text)-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-408S. The Honourable Senator Carstairs tabled the following:

Letter from Revenue Canada respecting payroll deductions tables for 1998. (English text)-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-409S.

MOTIONS

The Honourable Senator Meighen moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kirby:

That the Senate urges the Government, in the February 1998 Budget, to propose an amendment to the Income Tax Act that would increase to 30 %, by increments of 2% per year over a five-year period, the foreign property component of deferred income plans (pension plans, registered retirement savings plans and registered pension plans), as was done in the period between 1990 to 1995 when the foreign property limit of deferred income plans was increased from 10% to 20%, because:

(a) Canadians should be permitted to take advantage of potentially better investment returns in other markets, thereby increasing the value of their financial assets held for retirement, reducing the amount of income supplement that Canadians may need from government sources, and increasing government tax revenues from retirement income;

(b) Canadians should have more flexibility when investing their retirement savings, while reducing the risk of those investments through diversification;

(c) greater access to the world equity market would allow Canadians to participate in both higher growth economies and industry sectors;

(d) the current 20% limit has become artificial since both individuals with significant resources and pension plans with significant resources can by-pass the current limit through the use of, for example, strategic investment decisions and derivative products; and

(e) problems of liquidity for pension fund managers, who now find they must take substantial positions in a single company to meet the 80% Canadian holdings requirement, would be reduced

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kirby moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stewart, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Simard moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella:

That the Senate of Canada urge the Governor in Council not to give final approval to the project submitted by the consortium that proposed the Maritime and Northeast Pipeline Project until the Government of Canada has fulfilled its obligation to hold full and fair hearings on the proposals submitted by all interested parties, including the TransMaritime Pipeline Proposal, considering the following:

(a) the natural resources of Canada are the property of all Canadians;

(b) the needs and interests of Canadians should be considered first and foremost in the exploitation, development and use of Canada's natural resources;

(c) the recommended Maritime and Northeast Pipeline proposal overwhelmingly favours American interests over the interests of Canadians by channelling 83% of the natural gas extracted from the Sable Offshore Energy Project to the United States, while a mere 17% will be allocated to only two Canadian provinces, Nova Scotia and southern New Brunswick;

(d) the TransMaritime pipeline proposal places the interests of Canadians first by allocating 64% of the Sable Offshore natural gas to four Canadian provinces, including 34% to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, as opposed to a total volume of only 36% to the United States;

(e) the TransMaritime proposal allows the provinces of Ontario and Quebec to benefit from any natural gas from the Sable Offshore Energy Project;

(f) the TransMaritime Pipeline proposal offers support for Canadian industry and security of energy supplies for central Canada, and offers more Canadians a greater supply of natural gas at a lower cost;

(g) the TransMaritime Pipeline proposal generates employment opportunities and provides long-term benefits to disadvantaged northern New Brunswick;

(h) the TransMaritime Pipeline proposal will unite Canada, since it sends a positive message of inclusion, security, opportunity, and sharing within the Confederation, to Canadians in four provinces, including Acadians, Quebecers and francophone Ontarians;

(i) the refusal of the Sable Offshore Energy Project Joint Review Panel and the National Energy Board to hear the proposal submitted by TransMaritime Pipeline may seriously prejudice the rights of Canadians in the development and use of their energy resources and may undermine Canada's sovereignty over these resources;

(j) a significant amount of time will not be saved in the development of one pipeline instead of the other; and

(k) deciding the matter without considering all available options may be more damaging than any relatively minor delay that could result from a thorough and fair review;

That the matter of the process undertaken by the Sable Offshore Energy Project Joint Review Panel and the National Energy Board, in recommending that the Maritime and Northeast Pipeline project be allowed to proceed, be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources and that the Committee be authorized to examine and report upon the matter; and

That the Committee present its final report to the Senate no later than February 28, 1998.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hébert:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

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